How is the hydrogen fuel produced?

The US Department of Energy stated the following in its Nov. 2002 document "The National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap," available at its website:

"Hydrogen can be produced from a variety of sources, including fossil fuels; renewable sources such as wind, solar, or biomass; nuclear or solar heat-powered thermo chemical reactions; and solar photolysis or biological methods...

Although hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, it does not naturally exist in large quantities or high concentrations on Earth—it must be produced from other compounds such as water, biomass, or fossil fuels. Various methods of production have unique needs in terms of energy sources (e.g., heat, light, electricity) and generate unique by-products or emissions...

Steam methane reforming accounts for 95 percent of the hydrogen produced in the United States. This is a catalytic process that involves reacting natural gas or other light hydrocarbons with steam to produce a mixture of hydrogen and carbon dioxide. The mixture is then separated to produce high-purity hydrogen...

Partial oxidation of fossil fuels in large gasifiers is another method of thermal hydrogen production. It involves the reaction of a fuel with a limited supply of oxygen to produce a hydrogen mixture, which is then purified. Partial oxidation can be applied to a wide range of hydrocarbon feedstocks, including natural gas, heavy oils, solid biomass, and coal...

Hydrogen can also be produced by using electricity in electrolyzers to extract hydrogen from water."

Nov. 2002 - United States Department of Energy (DOE)
"The National Hydrogen Energy Roadmap" (2MB)

Peter:

Those methods, aside from nuclear, solar and hydro, sound as though they produce carbon. Isn't that counter productive if you have to use power created by fossil fuel (such as California where half our power comes from burning natural gas) to produce hydrogen? Also, I'm not a chemist and I'd like to know what the carbon production is for producing hydrogen by the steam method. Any idea what it is?

"Hydrogen produced in this way is not a zero-emission fuel. Carbon dioxide is emitted through the combustion and thermal decomposition reactions, and is also a product of the reaction between carbon monoxide and water to make hydrogen and carbon dioxide.

So why bother making hydrogen?
When hydrogen is used as a fuel, it releases only water as a byproduct. This makes it a zero-emission clean fuel, at least at the point of use.

Producing hydrogen from coal in a large, central facility means pollution control can be put in place. Particulates, and potentially carbon dioxide, can be removed from the gas stream very efficiently."

Web Link

"However, depending on the end-use of the hydrogen, and subsequent transport processes, you might be better off in terms of energy output, or efficiency (and therefore carbon emissions), just straight-up burning the coal to make electricity."

This is what I suspected. It takes a lot of energy generated by fossil fuels, not to mention the release of carbon during the hydrogen production process that hydrogen as a fuel is "not ready for prime time". This is the same for electric vehicles. Yes, they are "zero emission", but, the power generated to charge these vehicles produces carbon. Not to mention that the production of electricity and then use in electric vehicles is LESS efficient than simply burning fossil fuel to produce motive energy. All energy production methods have a loss of efficiency when transferred to a different use. So, we burn gas to produce electricity to charge electric vehicles. More efficient to simply put gas in fuel efficient vehicles. At least, at this point in time. Maybe as the science advances it will become more efficient, but it's not now.

The other thing that no one mentions in regards to electric vehicles is the environmental damage caused by the mining of the minerals required to manufacture their batteries. If I understand correctly, hydrogen vehicles don't provide direct power to motors, they charge batteries that provide power to the motors. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That said, electric vehicles and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles don't appear to be the "environmentally sensitive" vehicles that people think they are.

If your desire is to simply to produce zero emission vehicles, then these technologies work. They don't work in terms of the big picture.

The main advantage of the hydrogen train approach is that it eliminates the very costly and unsightly poles and overhead lines required for electrification.

"The main advantage of the hydrogen train approach is that it eliminates the very costly and unsightly poles and overhead lines required for electrification."

Agreed.

With all due respect, gentlemen, this is an interesting conversation about hydrogen, but totally irrelevant to reality; that is, Caltrain management and its rubber stamp, the JPB. They could care less! In other words, it won't happen.

They are determined to keep on doing what they do, regardless of facts, logic or reason. Example: They are now in deep doo-doo for failing to have an adequate PTC (positive train control) system in place, as was mandated by the FRA. C-BOSS was their technology of choice. Super expensive; never been done, beset by endless problems, including huge cost-overruns; in short, a very bad and very costly decision. But, tragically, typical.

I cite this example to strongly suggest that even if hydrogen were to be the carbon-free miracle fuel of the future, it will have no place in Caltrain's thinking and planning.

With Caltrain, like many other bureaucracies such as the High-Speed Rail Authority, it's not about trains; it's about the money!

"With Caltrain, like many other bureaucracies such as the High-Speed Rail Authority, it's not about trains; it's about the money!"

Agreed

Caltrain & SamTrans have switched to using 100% clean/green (zero-carbon) electricity.

Here's the March 2017 announcement:
Web Link

Like batteries, hydrogen is just another lossy way to store electric energy. A key advantage over slow-to-charge batteries is that, as with fossil fuels like gasoline or diesel, you can transfer (pump) and store the energy aboard the vehicle more quickly. As others have correctly observed, hydrogen fuel cells are only as clean or green as the electricity and other energy used in the entire hydrogen production, storage and delivery chain.

Caltrain electrification is in very large part being funded by HSRA so that the line is ready and fully compatible with the world's state-of-the-art overhead electric-powered high-speed trains and their power (25 kVAC) demands. Unlike with fuel cell trains which must lug and use heavy lossy batteries to store regenerative braking energy, electrified trains pump their braking energy right back into the overhead power line with fewer losses for other trains (or even the utility network) to use.