Menlo Park's red light camera program to end

Thank you, God, for wising up our CIty Council, at least on this issue. These gadgets were never about traffic management. They were always about the money; i.e., they produced a revenue stream for the vendor and the city.

Does that mean I get a refund?

I made a very safe right turn on a red light when heading north on El Camino, turning right at Ravenswood. It was safe because the light was green for traffic making a left turn on a green light from westbound Ravenswood turning left on El Camino, which created a safe barrier for traffic turning right from El Camino to Ravenswood. That's what I did. I had stopped and looked to my left and proceeded with my very safe right turn. The camera captured it and it cost me almost $500. I was sighted for a rolling stop while making a right turn. I tried to fight it and lost. Another guy in court was fighting a speeding (90 mph) ticket on 101. That ticket was only $290. What he did was reckless but what I did was very safe.

I think the cameras can be affective when used correctly, especially when capturing red light runners from drivers plowing through intersections. Excessive fines for safe right turns on a red light, which should actually be a green arrow in the example I sited (there's a green arrow in similar situations at other crossings) is just a trap to collect money.

I'd also like to note that I've noticed cameras flashing at the Ravenswood crossing when traffic is at a standstill. I wonder if bogus tickets aren't being issued.

$500 tickets for safe, low speed rolling right turns are unjust. Those turns shouldn't be illegal to start with.

Citizens 1, Nanny State 0.

Should have never taken this long to remove this unfair unjust system. We already pay plenty of taxes.

PS: troubling to read some council members pretending this was about safety. It wasn't.

Camera enforcement of straight through violations is about safety. Camera enforcement of right turns (California stops) is about revenue. After the cameras have been in place a short time the straight through violations drop off dramatically. After a short time 80% or more of all camera captured violations are for right turns on red. This can be effective if you have collisions caused by right turns, but I have not heard anyone say that is the case. Goodbye and good riddance to the enforcement cameras.

According to the Federal Highway Administration red light running rates can be reduced in half by simply increasing the yellow change interval. Hope the city will ask Caltrans to review yellow timing intervals on ECR.
Web Link

"Menlo Park's red light camera program to end"

As well it should. Long overdue. Thank you council for seeing the light. No pun intended.

If you see somebody cross with a cell phone camera taping his attempt to cross ECR as a pedestrian, that would be me.

Sad to see the weak and vulnerable suffer from being bullied by those who drive reckless and selfish. Crazy monkeys on their way to monkey business.

Luckily we have the technology not to be bullied by those who use their cars as weapons.
Liberal to do whatever they seem fit. With liberal being only what floats their personal agenda.

Trust me, I got the means and incentive to come after those who endanger my life. And that's gonna cost you a little bit more than $500.
So bring it on, scofflaws, try me!

"Unpopular opinion" should be asked to retake Drivers Ed.

When the signal turns yellow (and you are obligated to watch the signal approaching and intersection), you need to STOP.

If you are going to fast to be able to stop, you are breaking the law and are driving reckless.

The light cycle is set up to allow you to stop safely, IF you are in possession of all your senses and drive according to the law.

If you can't come to a safe stop with those premises, you should not be allowed to drive. Full stop.

I have trouble understanding how that is even debatable by a sane human being?

"The light cycle is set up to allow you to stop safely, IF you are in possession of all your senses and drive according to the law."

Should read:

"The light cycle is SUPPOSED to be set up to allow you to stop safely, IF you are in possession of all your senses and drive according to the law."

Many of the cities that have installed the red light cameras have decreased the duration of the yellow light in order to increase revenue. Some of them decreased the duration below which the law allows, and many of the red light tickets have been defeated in court on this basis with knowledgeable litigants. The statute specifies that the yellow light must be of a certain duration based on the speed survey. Of course, decreasing the yellow light timing directly contradicts the stated goal of "safety".

Reference Vehicle Code Section 21455.7:

(a) At an intersection at which there is an automated enforcement system in operation, the minimum yellow light change interval shall be established in accordance with the California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices.
(b) For purposes of subdivision (a), the minimum yellow light change intervals relating to designated approach speeds provided in the California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices are mandatory minimum yellow light intervals.
(c) A yellow light change interval may exceed the minimum interval established pursuant to subdivision (a).

Nice effort to go to those lengths, but your posturing is hilarious. Even claiming the engineers are wrong.

Lets just stick to the Basics, which you apparently can't refute.

Minimum limits are the limits which are calculated according to physics.

If you don't follow the law, you are breaking it. Good luck defeating Physics!

So what's 'reasonable' in your opinion?

10 mph over (stopping 10ft after the crosswalk)?
20 mph over (ending up 100ft after the crosswalk)?

An extra big yellow beacon for your poor eyesight?
Extra french fries for actually watching where you are driving?

Just, Wow!

This is an excellent decision. They should have never been put in place to begin with, and glad to see them go.

Sad to see Meuller wanting to keep them -- I always thought he was reasonable guy. Next election, he won't get my vote

Though the article does not reflect it, there was no motion made by any council member to keep the red light cameras.

There was a discussion amongst the council members where the pros and cons where weighed. There is nothing wrong with Councilmembers weighing the evidence. Because Mueller or any councilmember discusses evidence that would point to keeping the cameras is irrelevant.

The record is, when it came time to vote, no councilmember made a motion to keep the cameras.

No, it’s not people driving “recklessly”. It’s confusing signal changes that often change without notice and are orange for only a split second. THIS causes accidents. The issue would be fixed with a simple four way stop

Good, glad to see it go. Unfair, unjust and all about the money. Thank you council

Since it's been hereby "proven" that technology-aided tickets don't improve safety or change behavior, I assume that means MPPD officers will stop writing any tickets at all? For that matter, why even have street lights?!

Thanks, Council- your dedication to (car-based) ~freedom~ is inspirational!

Finally the money grab is ending. BTW, I have never gotten a red light camera ticket. In fact it has been decades since I was even stopped let along received a violation.
This red light camera scam doesn't make the roads safer. Just lines the pockets of the cities coffers. $12/hour workers work over a week and turn over for their paycheck to the government for an innocent slow roll through a red light.
Not fair. Not just. Good Bye. Good Riddance.

Sweet! I rarely come to a complete stop while making a right hand turn on a red, generally rolling through the intersection first and hitting the brakes only if someone or something is in the way.
All clear now! Lets GO!!!

There was a 21 page study done prior to installing the cameras in Menlo Park.
I've posted it before...in case the link below does not work, you can find the study on their website:

saferstreetsla.org

"A Detailed Analysis of the Red Light Camera Program in Menlo Park"
by Jay Beeber, Exec Director of Safer Streets L.A.

Web Link

From the report linked above:

Concluding Remarks:

No quantifiable evidence exists that the red light camera program in Menlo Park has achieved its stated goal of improving roadway safety. At the intersections currently being enforced on El Camino Real, no red light running collision problem existed prior to installation of the cameras and therefore the implementation of photo enforcement at these locations was not justified and represents excessive enforcement. At the Bayfront Expressway location, a fairly minor reduction in collisions may have occurred which was likely due entirely to an increase in the amber signal time. In addition, based on the lack of a decrease in citations between the dates when the citation rate changed due to external factors, it can reasonably be inferred that no improvement in driver behavior has been achieved at red light camera intersections. Finally, as outlined in the staff report, rear end collisions have increased resulting in a net negative impact on safety in the city.

A very simple solution that would improve safety at all intersections is to introduce a delay between the red light of a particular direction and the green light for the perpendicular direction. A second or two delay would reduce the possibility of a collision.

"A very simple solution that would improve safety at all intersections is to introduce a delay between the red light of a particular direction and the green light for the perpendicular direction. A second or two delay would reduce the possibility of a collision"

There is already such a delay. It varies depending on speed limit.