Does Menlo Park fire district need drones?

I'm reminded of a recent Hawaii Five-O episode in which a drone was hijacked and fitted with machine guns and then proceeded to shoot up innocent civilians.

There's also the danger of using the drone to identify anonymous posters to the Almanac.

"There's also the danger of using the drone to identify anonymous posters to the Almanac."

This kind of comment is the inevitable downside risk of an honest effort to seek serious public input on the proper use of these valuable tools to assist our firefighters.

Oh Peter, do lighten up.

@whatever, @amused: +1

As with all drones and issues potentially involving privacy, the devil is in the details: how will training be handled? who will have access? how long will typical data acquired be kept, and how is it secured? what will the process be in releasing such data to the public? Who protects the data from the protectors? What penalties for misuse of the data?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

We've all seen what the police allow happen to various databases, especially by a cop who wants a little peek at private data for his personal purpose.

That's why all women are warned against dating or even flirting with cops.

(here comes the usual claptrap: "courts have said you have no expectation of privacy.... blah blah blah")

Makes sense to me to use this tech assuming the use is restricted to fires and other emergencies. If someone in the department abuses this for other purposes, that'd be a foul ball. Used well in an emergency, could provide useful, potentially critical, information with little to no risk to personnel. Keep the use 'in scope' and I expect most people will support it. Like the transparency.

I want to commend the fire department for taking a responsible approach to this project. They are already contemplating a controlled, policy-driven usage model complete with intentional openness for ongoing public monitoring.

This kind of equipment in the hands of anyone, particularly governments, has the potential to be used in ways that endanger our privacy and other constitutional rights. But, they are also fantastic tools for just the kinds of things described in the article. The public challenge is to put good policies in place and monitor the compliance and adapt to things learned.

BTW, I'm hoping the first commentator's tongue is firmly in cheek referring to the Hawaii 5-O episode. That was a technically incompetent, terrible episode of a show that is only fun with suspended disbelief in the first place.

The use of drones is not to be taken lightly. While the Fire Department could be expected to use the drones only when necessary, just what would be considered necessary? Will their drones be used to fly over properties to see if their land has been safely cleared for fire prevention? And what about anything 'extra' the drone sees? Will that be ignored or passed along to authorities?

Recently in Ladera and person has been flying his/her drone over neighbors' properties, including close in to decks. This is an appalling intrusion of privacy and a safety risk, but where are the laws and police support to stop this?

Until the law fully catches up with the use of drones, we should hold off on their use no matter how practical it seems.

Max - Your concerns are exactly the reason why this issue has been placed on the agenda for the Fire Board's 21 Oct meeting for public input and discussion. While the cost of this drone is well within the Fire Chief's expenditure authority the concerns with the use of drones by government agencies prompted the Chief and the Board to get public input and to create policy guidance on the use of drones by the Fire District BEFORE the drone is purchased.

Hopefully you and others will provide email and/or verbal input to the Chief and the Board to assist us in formulating those policies.

Note that every Fire Board meeting agenda provides for public comment as emphasized by this item on every agenda:
"A fundamental element of democracy is the right of citizens to address their elected
representatives."

@Peter Carpenter: Right on!!!

Here's a short video showing the potential of the use of drones for photography. It was taken in Santa Cruz, as more fully described below.

Incidentally, I'm all for the use of drones by the Menlo Park Fire Protection District (MPFPD.

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Web Link


SANTA CRUZ, Calif. —The City of Santa Cruz celebrated its wharf turning 100 years old Saturday night with a fireworks display.

FROM THE GROUND
From the ground
Fireworks were also photographed from the ground.

Tim Cattera
VIEW LARGEFireworks were shot from the sand at Main Beach near the wharf and Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk. The Giant Dipper roller coaster, which is 90 years old, was a dramatic backdrop as brilliant colors exploded in the night sky.

Professional drone videographer Archer Koch used a drone to record the fireworks from a unique perspective.

DRONE VIDEO: Fireworks blast above 100-year-old Santa Cruz Wharf

Read more: Web Link

What was not dramatic but, in fact, terrible: the music that accompanies this fireworks video. Why not just the ambient sounds, even if it's just sea air. Does music have to intrude everywhere? On the phone, at the ball game, in the gaps on the radio?

The fireworks are themselves ENOUGH. The Music of the Spheres is all we need.

A drone, operated by an ethical & conscientious Fire Dept. member, could be very beneficial in searches for lost hikers, locating accident victims at night, locating source of fires in wooded areas, and yes - checking for mandated ground clearing around buildings. (If Max doesn't want to clear his property to minimize fire risk, that's his problem but if I live across the street it could be mine as well.)

As long as there are regulations in place to prevent use of a drone to see what cars are parked outside the operator's house while he's on duty or other "personal interest" inappropriate uses, I'm for it. I trust the fire dept more than MPPD to use it properly.

This seems a good idea that could save firefighters' lives and help endangered homeowners especially where the terrain is rugged or the hazard is not easily identifiable. It could be very useful for the Swift Water Rescue team, and would also help in identifying the exact location of illegal fireworks on the 4th that put people in danger. To me, the Fire District is a different "kettle of fish" from the police and such technology could save lives and property.

Lordy - it's amazing we've done so well all these decades without drones. Let's see - license plate readers, traffic cameras, now drones. And don't we handsomely pay active firefighters and their pensions? Although there might initially be reasonable legal guidelines, rules, laws, etc. for their usage, everyone knows those can be changed down the road, without notice to residents. Aren't the communities with wooded hillsides in need of these rather than flat Menlo Park where no one hikes much less gets lost. Although it might help with lost pets, etc. And will the police want them, too?

Does this mean a reduction in firefighters & an increase in drone-related jobs?
We're not Manhattan - we're Menlo Park, and perhaps we don't need the latest law-enforcing, enhancing equipment? We're possibly breeding paranoia with all this techno 'needs' rather than depending on the best of what we have - regard for life, and one another.

Possibly a good idea, but wouldn't it make sense to do a regional use purchase so that it could be used by multiple agencies and the cost could be proportional.

Kudos to the fire chief for making this part of the public debate.

I am more concerned that this will be a make work program.

Show me a call that they get that is not better with the drone. An FTE of fireman (which is platinum premium labor) will be using the drone rather than actually fighting the fire or participating in the call.

Then, if they buy the drone, someone will have to maintain it. It will be part of their duty roster. Then, the folks that use it will have to be certified, because the legal fall out of crashing a drone into someone, etc. Then , if you need to be certified, then someone will need to be a drone certifier. Then Menlo Fire may become the regional certifier for civilian drones - rather than do what we pay them to do - which is fight fires. I have heard rumors that Menlo is regionally known as a training center for certain things - which is great, but I'm would feel better if I knew that these other activities were budget neutral - an with pensions being what they are, I'm sure that they are not.

What i would rather see is that FTE be used to make a weblog of the calls that they get - so we can feel that we are getting our money's worth.

"I have heard rumors that Menlo is regionally known as a training center for certain things - which is great, but I'm would feel better if I knew that these other activities were budget neutral -"

All of the training services provided by the District to other agencies are both revenue neutral and carry the fully burdened cost of providing those services. And when the District sponsored Urban Search and Rescue Team (CA TF-3) is deployed all of its fully burdened expenses plus the cost of back-filling the deployed slots are paid by FEMA. The net result is that the District has some of the best trained and most hands on disaster experienced firefighters in the entire country.

"What i would rather see is that FTE be used to make a weblog of the calls that they get - so we can feel that we are getting our money's worth."

That log has been in existence for years and was initially proposed and sponsored by your Fire District:

Web Link

Enjoy this total transparency.